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Topic: Why define ourselves by arbitrary rules?
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Hi guys,
I just made this account because I've been looking for a place to ask some stuff I've always wondered about the LGBT community. Personally, I identify as a straight female, but I hesitate to say even that, which is a good lead in to my question. There are a ton of different terms in the LGBT community. Bisexual, pansexual, bigender,femme and homme, etc. I can understand some of it, and I don't mean to sound offensive when I say this, but honestly after a point I don't get the need to define every part of yourself with a label. And the other thing is that feminine and masculine behavior are defined by society. They're are completely arbitrary rules! So why define ourselves by them? I've just always wondered about all of the terms and labels. Could anyone give me some insight into this?
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Post: #666321  , Mon 16 Jul 12, 4:26AM |
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:: Inch
:: QA6 Livin' it up! | |
Well, some LGBTQ people completely abandon labels, taking on an "I don't give a shit" viewpoint. I find it pretty admirable.
Others, like myself, actually like the labels.
I, personally, try to define myself as best I can. Labels are compact, though perhaps oversimplified, ways to do so.
If I say, "I'm white," or "I'm a lesbian," or "I'm a girl," people will know exactly what I mean. These words are simple, well-known, and well-defined.
Of course, if I wanted to be really specific, I could say, "I'm English, French, Dutch, Polish, and Native American," or "I'm a homoromantic demisexual," or "I'm both physically and psychologically female."
But those are way too detailed for normal conversation, and most people would just look at me and go "Huh?" xD
I will never be afraid again
I will keep on fighting 'till the end
I can walk on water
I can fly
I will keep on fighting 'till I die
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Post: #666323 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 4:38AM |
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See, I would hate labeling myself like that! So I guess it's a personal thing? Do you feel that labeling gives you a better sense of who you are? I'm so curious!
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Post: #666324 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 4:41AM |
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:: TealSkye
:: QA7 Taking responsibility | |
It makes explaining your preferences a hell of a lot quicker in a conversation.
When I say "Pansexual" it's just the gist of my sexuality. That's it. We acknowledge labels ideally exist to define one aspect of our character.
Not to define who we are.
I will say however, I feel it imperative that we all consider labels are an option, and ones sexuality does not need to be tallied, and sorted into any of the existing terms, if it does not fit. You are allowed to find some obscure online definition of what it is, but take solace in your individuality. It's okay. 
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Edit: TealSkye, Mon 16 Jul 12, 4:49AM
Post: #666329 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 4:48AM |
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:: Inch
:: QA6 Livin' it up! | |
Mm, yeah, I suppose so. I like knowing exactly who I am, with no surprises.
Whenever I'm confronted with a new genre of labels, like sexual orientation, I dig around, do lots of research both on the various labels and on myself. And from that, I try to find the label that fits me best.
But yeah, different strokes for different folks, as they say. Some people like labels, some don't.
I will never be afraid again
I will keep on fighting 'till the end
I can walk on water
I can fly
I will keep on fighting 'till I die
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Post: #666330 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 4:49AM |
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:: Patroclus
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
I too am confused by the insane amount of labels that are being used lately. Honestly though I believe that they're pretty much arbitrary and only really being used by people who either want to seem more unique or those so looking for identity that they have to search for these overspecific labels to identify themselves.
Sorry if that seems rude, but my experiences with people who must label themselves haven't lead me to a very flattering conclusion.
"No man is rich enough to buy back his own past"-Oscar Wilde
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Post: #666344 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 6:04AM |
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:: Inch
:: QA6 Livin' it up! | |
@Ty, Sorry if you've had bad experiences or something, but not everyone who labels themselves is "trying to be unique" -_-
And yeah, I do have some overly specific labels for myself. But I don't use them in common conversation. They're more for personal reference than anything else.
People who actually use overly-detailed-to-the-point-of-being-TMI labels probably fit into the former category, to be honest.
I will never be afraid again
I will keep on fighting 'till the end
I can walk on water
I can fly
I will keep on fighting 'till I die
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Post: #666350 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 6:36AM |
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:: Patroclus
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
May I ask what labels you use for yourself?
I hope to be proven wrong, but in all honesty I really hate labels. Some are necessary, but many that are cropping up lately just come across as ridiculous.
"No man is rich enough to buy back his own past"-Oscar Wilde
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Post: #666352 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 6:40AM |
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:: Inch
:: QA6 Livin' it up! | |
What labels I use for myself. Do you mean in conversation, or the whole "personal reference" thing I mentioned?
I will never be afraid again
I will keep on fighting 'till the end
I can walk on water
I can fly
I will keep on fighting 'till I die
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Post: #666353 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 6:44AM |
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:: TealSkye
:: QA7 Taking responsibility | |
@ Ty
Believe what you may, but I was under the impression that a natural part of evolving and human language, was to be able to find or create adequate terms to prescribe, to a new idea or concept.
What is the variable in whether or not a particular term is arbitrary might I ask? Is prescribing a word to a characteristic, or concept, arbitrary all together?
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Post: #666356 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 7:36AM |
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:: Patroclus
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
Personal reference, such as gender and sexual identity.
"No man is rich enough to buy back his own past"-Oscar Wilde
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Post: #666357 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 7:37AM |
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:: Patroclus
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
@Skye: When we use language to describe the world around us I tend to agree, but when we use increasingly more and more specific terms to describe ourselves all we do is bind ourselves to a narrow identity. It defies the natural fluidity that is sexuality.
"No man is rich enough to buy back his own past"-Oscar Wilde
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Post: #666359 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 7:43AM |
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:: Inch
:: QA6 Livin' it up! | |
For gender identity, I simply use "female" or "cis." There isn't much to it for me.
For orientation, while I outwardly use "lesbian", in my own mind, I often use "homoromantic demisexual." It fits more accurately, but few people would understand it, so I don't actually say it.
I will never be afraid again
I will keep on fighting 'till the end
I can walk on water
I can fly
I will keep on fighting 'till I die
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Post: #666360 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 7:56AM |
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:: Patroclus
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
I've heard both described on 4chan before, but could I ask you to describe them here so that I have more context?
"No man is rich enough to buy back his own past"-Oscar Wilde
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Post: #666361 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 8:04AM |
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:: Inch
:: QA6 Livin' it up! | |
All right.
Homoromanticism is like homosexuality, but it is a romantic orientation, as opposed to a sexual one. A homoromantic person could fall in love with someone of the same sex, but it would have no bearing on whether or not that person was homosexual.
So, you could have a homoromantic person who's sexually attracted to someone of the opposite sex, but doesn't fall in love with them.
Demisexuality, as described by the AVEN wiki, is "a person who does not experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone."
I will never be afraid again
I will keep on fighting 'till the end
I can walk on water
I can fly
I will keep on fighting 'till I die
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Post: #666363 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 8:33AM |
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Personally, I'm not fond of labels... in a perfect world, the only label I would have to use is "me." It gets really bad since I sometimes work my way through different labels 4 or 5 times a day. Some times I feel fully trans, sometimes I feel two-spirited, sometimes I just feel queer. Likewise, my attractions are always in flux, I have, a large image folder on my computer of people who I, at one point, found attractive, and, on any given day, I'll question why I saved half of it, and the next I'd question the other half.
Labels are just way too concrete for the fluid subjects of gender and orientation... or any sort of trait for that matter.
However, in a world where people don't stop and take the time to get acquainted with people, labels are a life saver. No one outside of a support group is going to listen to you babel on about how, even though you were born a man, you feel like you should have been a woman and want to be a woman, but you still enjoy being a man sometimes. It's just easier to say "MtF, but sometimes I'm a bit of a tomboy" even if, at times, my masculinity goes beyond just tomboy, or sometimes I feel MtF doesn't truly convey the amount of womanhood I feel, it's too complicated to explain in the 2 minutes any given person will sit and talk to you, and that's time that can be devoted to actually doing something fun and/or productive. The intricate details need to be developed over a long relationship.
So do I hate labels? Yeah... but they're a necessary evil if anything is going to get done in the world.
Where my shame gland should be, there is a second awesome gland.
Don't make me practice my interior decorating on your internal organs o.O
The sky isn't the limit, it's a suggestion.
I wish I was eccentric *sigh* unfortunately I'm too crazy for euphemisms.
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Edit: Viziroth, Mon 16 Jul 12, 10:29AM
Post: #666372 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 10:28AM |
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I think it mostly boils down to how we've been brought up with a strong degree of labelling culture. For a lot of people not only is is less of a hassle to assign labels to themselves and behaviours, but it's a kind of comfort to them. Society delights in these little terms of description, and what's more is that people understand them and are understandably reluctant to move away from that into what could be varying degrees of uncertainties.
It seems like the LGBT community relies on labels more than most, or rather, is the most publicly recognised minority to do so. And I think that the community relies on labels a lot for that very reason, being a minority, especially one that faces so much prejudice, inspires within people a sense that they want to belong to something, one natural conclusion of which is to create labels as a kind of rallying point.
One a more personal level, I used to believe that I needed to have a definite label for myself. Now, however, I use labels loosely and only when needed. I think of myself as someone and something floating between the cast iron definitions of male and female, and yet because a lot of people don't understand that, I say I'm female. Sexuality is a little more straightforward for me, I'm happy to go with what the label 'gay' entails.
In short, in a way society has bred into us the need for labels.
I'm a ratfish trying to practice doing back flips on your mattress.
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Post: #666374 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 10:32AM |
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:: TealSkye
:: QA7 Taking responsibility | |
@ Ty
"but when we use increasingly more and more specific terms to describe ourselves all we do is bind ourselves to a narrow identity"
Ah, but to say narrow is to imply that they do not perfectly fit within the identity to begin with. If suddenly it isn't applicable, they stop referencing it. Ideally, of course. I will wholeheartedly agree with you, sexuality is fluid. It is such a diverse thing, we should not strive to have a sexual identity. But if one is to land within the parking space of an existing term, what of it?
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Post: #666411 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 3:03PM |
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from where I see it, they're more adjectives than labels.
but I like the more basic of these labels, it gives me a straight category. (no pun intended) I know what I am, and i want to keep that as one of the set defined constants to me.and also, set labels translate to others, everyone knows what gay means, i can use it, and i know I'll be understood correctly.
it will be alright in the end, and if it's not alright, it's not the end yet.
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Post: #666647 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 9:50PM |
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:: TealSkye
:: QA7 Taking responsibility | |
^
Agreed. Adjectives is a better summary.
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Post: #666659 , Mon 16 Jul 12, 10:42PM |
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