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Topic: Atheism, agnosticism, and humanism
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:: grum
:: QA Staff (Founder) | |
There's always lots of talk of religion and how religious people align their faith with their sexuality. Well, this isn't about that 
I want to have a look at the other side of the fence. There must be a reasonable proportion of members here on QA who reject mass religion and all that it entails?
Would you describe yourself as atheist? Or agnostic? Or humanist? Or something else? Have you given it thought?
Personally, I'm happy defining myself as an atheist but I don't reject humanism, and I don't reject spiritualism in principle. I merely don't engage.
Religion and all of its hypocrisies anger me. I was very young when I rejected the idea of God, probably not long after I rejected the Santa Clause concept. Obviously it took me several more years to really understand the basic issues with Christianity but, since I was a teenager, I've felt that Christianity has done societies far more harm than good over the course of its existence. The same will be true for some other major religions.
I'm not a scholar of religious studies, by any means, but I don't think you need to be. I think, though, that those who affiliate themselves with a religion, often fail to fully understand or justify it. Or use illogical or dangerous justifications for their beliefs. Which is a large part of the problem.
I get the feeling that, certainly in Europe, Christianity is slowly dying out. I won't live to see the day that Christianity is reduced to cult-level status, but I really wish I could (assuming nothing worse takes its place!).
When I was young / I didn't know if I was better off asleep or up
Now I've grown up / I wonder what was that world I was dreaming of? Nada Surf
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Edit: grum, Sat 13 Aug 11, 7:39PM
Post: #540449  , Sat 13 Aug 11, 3:23PM |
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:: sarky
:: QA3 Getting cosy | |
Im completley atheist. My family have never really been religous but most of my friends are. Most are christian or some variation, others are a mix of mulisms and buddihists. I have the biggest problem with chrisitianity and islam personally.
Dont get me wrong I dont attack people over being religous but if they ask me or something they believe in offends me I make it VERY clear. Interms of my sexuality, atheism fits fine with it lol but my friends werent to sure. A friend who is in a pentacostal church completley ignored me and was quite insulting to me when she did sart talking to me again(sort of). Her mom found out after metting and actually offered to take me to her church and have me 'helped' in their next session.
Personally I think religon causes way too much conflict and I dont agree with it on any level, I have strong morals and im sure of my values and I have got those from a non-religous background. I dont think religous will ever not exisit if that make sense, its been around to long, its a way of people thnking they belong to something and its comforting for them.
It might look like I’m doing nothing, but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy
"nature was in an odd freak when it made you"- diary of anne lister
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Post: #540453 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 3:36PM |
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I am an atheist. The only atheist in my school, I might add. And I'm proud of it. A lot of people hate me for it, but a lot more of them don't care. I've been an atheist my whole life; despite living in a Christian household. I never really cared about religion, preferring to ignore it completely, until I entered middle school. People found out I wasn't a Christian, my future was sealed. They tormented me. Now, people preach to me, expecting me to change faiths, and I don't. I hate religion now, especially Christianity. I don't hate Christians; my best friends are Christians. But I hate the religion and how persistent it is. I hate how people try to change me. *Sigh*
The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry. -Ernest Hemingway
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Post: #540459 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 4:02PM |
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:: TheVishual
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
I've been Atheist since like 6th Grade. my parents put me in a catholic school and the nuns that i had for teachers made me want to kill myself and I have self mutilation scars all over my arms which were triggered by things they did to me.
I looked at the fact that I was in a school filled with people who worship the same religion and their clergy members make me want to cut myself and kill myself. FUCK THAT! so then i became atheist and saw christianity for what it was.
I'm not gonna share my veiws on christianity cuz im not tryna hurt anyones feelings.
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Post: #540478 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 5:00PM |
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I am an atheist and have been for a few years. As an atheist (or an agnostic atheist, whatever you want to call it) I acknowledge that I can't know if God exists or not and one day I may be proven wrong, but for now I do not see enough evidence to suggest a God exists and for that reason, I do not believe in one.
My parents are both Presbyterian and that is how I was raised. I do not hate Presbyterianism. I did not become an atheist because I asked God for a new bike and didn't get one. I didn't become an atheist to "rebel". I became an atheist because I realized that there are so many religions in the world and who says Christianity has all the answers? Most people I know who are Christians are because their parents raised them that way, not because they've done any serious philosophical thinking.
To me, the Bible is a book written by men and thus full of contradictions and horrible lines. Oh sure, God doesn't support killing gay people anymore, that was ancient Israel, well the Bible still says it. Check out Leviticus 20:13. That's the same God who says "Love one another". What caused such a dramatic change? To me that's just proof that the two Testaments were written by very different people in very different times. Religion was created to give people a purpose, to give meaning to life, and to provide rules for a functioning society. I don't believe it has any real metaphysical truth to it.
I don't need an ancient rulebook to tell me what's right and wrong and how to be a good person. I don't need the fear of Hell and the promise of an afterlife for me to be a good person. That's another thing too: it seemed to me like the only reason Christians do what's right is because they're afraid of going to Hell. It seemed all about fear. What kind of life is that?
And don't get me wrong, I find religion fascinating and I love reading about it and its history and I find it fascinating how it can be such an important part of people's lives. But I don't need it.
WAKE ME IF YOU'RE OUT THERE!
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Edit: ClubSilencio, Sat 13 Aug 11, 5:18PM
Post: #540481 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 5:10PM |
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I rejected God and Christianity in 5th grade and sort of developed my own spiritual ideas (which I eventually outgrew by 9th grade.) In high school I experimented with various faiths including Judaism, Paganism, Wicca, and even tried the whole Christianity thing again. But I flat out gave up in grade 11 or 12 and stopped thinking about it, especially when my mom got sick and eventually passed away. I just refused to think anything other than "she's gone".
My whole family is very religious, especially on my dad's side which is all Catholic, Orthodox Christian, and Jehovah's Witness. I've pretty much estranged myself from the family. I don't have very strong family ties...
I don't consider myself atheist. I can't. I personally think that human beings have absolutely no right nor ability to determine what, if any, higher power controls the universe. I just think it's selfish and presumptuous to say, based solely on the word of other human beings, that your belief is the One and Only Truth.
To be honest, if I had to choose an established religion, I'd choose Taoism. It pretty much has the same idea - that it's impossible to truly understand the essence of the universe.
"Rise! if he past detains you,
Her sunshine and storms forget.
No chains so unworthy to hold you
As those of a vain regret."
Adelaide Anne Procter, 'Now'
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Edit: synkronic, Sat 13 Aug 11, 5:25PM
Post: #540484 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 5:24PM |
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I was baptized, went to a Catholic school, and all that crap.
I never believed any of it. Maybe it's because by age 10 I had gone through enough (injury, divorce, 9/11, abuse, etc.) and became thoroughly convinced that there is no God. Because a 'god' wouldn't constantly screw people over like that, especially a child.
Because of all this I became very cynical and rude to the religion as a whole.
Today I still have a lot of animosity towards Catholicism/Christianity/etc. I don't care if you follow it, but don't dare rub it in my face and I won't rub my beliefs in yours.
Other religions I find fascinating and from time to time research them.
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Post: #540494 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 6:24PM |
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:: TheVishual
:: QA4 A spot of tea please, Alfred! | |
I've been Atheist since like 6th Grade. my parents put me in a catholic school and the nuns that i had for teachers made me want to kill myself and I have self mutilation scars all over my arms which were triggered by things they did to me.
I looked at the fact that I was in a school filled with people who worship the same religion and their clergy members make me want to cut myself and kill myself. FUCK THAT! so then i became atheist and saw christianity for what it was.
I'm not gonna share my veiws on christianity cuz im not tryna hurt anyones feelings.
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Post: #540515 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 7:52PM |
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:: Lodds
:: QA5 Having the neighbours round | |
I'd describe myself more agnostic than anything. I was raised Catholic,and am going to a Catholic school.
I honestly don't mind religion as a whole, it's the followers who insist that anything that isn't in their religion is wrong that annoy me.
I'm more of a science-higher power mixed person, I believe in the big bang, but I always ask what created it, what created the particles that were involved etc.
The bible is something I refuse to even bother to try and read, even if it was written by a higher power - it's 2000 years old, I think it may need a bit of an update by now.
I want to believe that there is a higher power that will help us in life, but when you look at all the things that are going on-wars, riots, murders etc. I think to myself Even if there is, do we deserve help? We, who can't even be kind to one another, who are greedy, anger ridden beings?
Sorry didn't mean to go all odd there.
I'm not very good at putting my thoughts and beliefs into words so sorry if this is all over the place.
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Post: #540517 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 8:12PM |
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Secular humanism ftw!
Ultimately, I feel that the actual "belief" part of religion and non-theism is actually the least relevant; one's belief in itself doesn't affect anyone else and doesn't even need to affect one's own normative moral views. Instead, I think that a humanist approach, prioritising morality and the social contract (a more philosophical approach) is more pragmatic and can be less dogmatic as an ideology (at times) than atheism or agnosticism.
Also, I'm a fan of the notion that belief doesn't necessarily need to define one's coalitions in matters of morality; while a lot of people here seem to be hostile towards religion, I generally have a lot of time for more progressive groups such as the Anglican Church. Sure, they're far from perfect, but where religion makes good steps towards social liberalism, I feel that's grounds to view them as something other than the enemy.
~Queen of Hearts, Co-King of Tommania-Kodanbourg, Overlord of the Inconceivable Castle, Trader in Wits, Sarcasms and Paradoxes, Somewhat-less-dashing Co-host of TADTARSFAHWYEB, Unicorn-narwhal-lawyer, Pink Marshmallow, PolsGeek, The Law
Also: LYNN IS ADORABLE!
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Post: #540531 , Sat 13 Aug 11, 10:08PM |
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I was quite happy the day I found this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ietsism
(Me, reading article: "I know what I am!!!")
In short, I think the universe may have forces bigger than we are, and said forces may perhaps be affecting us and/or responding to us, and I have been known to pray in the sense of "oh God PLEASE let such and such happen (or not)." I also think there may well be energies and forces affecting the world that science can't explain yet.
But, while I have gone to Unitarian Universalist services two or three times, I don't believe in God in a conventional sense and I've yet to come across an organized religion that feels right for me. If I ever become more religious/spiritual, I suspect it will be through some form of Wicca/Paganism, as that has long intrigued me and in many ways seems more open-ended than church.
That was a long-winded explanation of my personal variant of ietsism. But no one's heard that word, so if I have to explain in a hurry I tend to tell people I'm agnostic.
Hearts don't follow the rules of logic.
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Post: #540599 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 1:08AM |
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Hail, fellow atheists! I've been an on-and-off atheist for years. My paternal grandparents were Catholic, and that turned Dad off religion entirely. My maternal grandparents were...Baptists, I think? Apart from my grandfather's residual inner deacon, they're mostly harmless. Mom's a Jew when the mood suits her (usually only for Hanukkah and fasts).
Me, I was raised without religion. Then I tried it out for about a year or two--Asatru, a whole Norse revival deal. Kinda fun, but mostly dead religions get a bit of flak from classmates. It just fizzled out after a while. I was back to being an atheist.
I've grown a bit set in atheism since then. Getting to know the Westboro Baptist Church, Christian material online, and a very Mormon friend turned me off religion even more. It all gets under my skin a little bit. I can't quite put my finger on why that is. For all I know, half might just be rebelliousness.
Only thing is, I kinda envy religious folk for their rituals, particularly prayer. There's a beauty and a drama in religion that I haven't yet been able to replace or replicate as an atheist. There but for the nonexistence of God go I.
She was a Phantom of delight when first she gleam'd upon my sight...
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Post: #540610 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 2:10AM |
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I am agnostic. I feel like no one can prove it or disprove it.
In my opinion, religion has done more harm than good and is illegitimate. I respect spiritualism and tolerant religion. Though, tolerant religion seems to be far and few.(Please don't take offense, anyone. If you do, sorry.)
I also feel obligated to add that although I am not religious nor really even spiritual, I do want to represent the agnostic and atheist community with moral. So, I should add that I do have a high moral standard regardless of my lack of faith.
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Post: #540612 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 2:20AM |
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Like T, I am also agnostic. Which is funny because everyone thought that I was the one who was going to be a priest when I was young. I even considered it myself! Clearly it was not meant to be. I have spent a lot of time studying religion. It's actually a topic I love to talk about! But I found that I couldn't find faith in any of them.
I don't think it's right for someone to demand faith and worship and yet not at least prove their existence. I think it's the least you could do. I mean don't you think that you need to earn that kind of devotion?
If god is truly is all loving and all knowing, then god should understand that. And if not, then I'm okay with that, because why would I wan't to worship that god anyways?
I always make sense, you just listen intermittently.
-Alan Shore
Well broil me in butter and call me a flounder!
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Edit: Socrates, Sun 14 Aug 11, 4:46AM
Post: #540662 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 4:42AM |
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:: grum
:: QA Staff (Founder) | |
It's not directly related, but here's an interesting article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14506129
The author, Alain de Botton, attempts to align religion and pessimism against secularism and optimism. In the process of over-simplifying the concepts, I think he's produced a fairly confused argument.
He boils it down to religion providing a generally pessimistic outlook and thus religious folk are more likely to lead contented lives.
He doesn't, however, offer any facts to solidify his argument. It's merely an opinion piece.
I doubt there's a strong correlation between religion and pessimism and I doubt that pessimists lead more contented lives. Likewise, I wouldn't have thought that us non-theists would be more prone to optimism or indeed less contented existences.
I feel contented almost never, granted, but I'd regard myself as generally realist, neither pessimistic nor optimistic.
When I was young / I didn't know if I was better off asleep or up
Now I've grown up / I wonder what was that world I was dreaming of? Nada Surf
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Post: #540823 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 1:01PM |
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I don't mean to sound ditzy or anything here but my religion is French Fries coz I was eating McDonalds when I signed up!!!
And... French Fries are awesome!!!
just give me a reason/just a little bit's enough/just a second, we're not broken/just bent we can learn to love again/oh, it's in the stars/it's been written in the scars on our hearts/we're not broken/just bent we can learn to love again.
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Post: #540829 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 1:24PM |
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Personally I find myself torn between the search for Nirvana (no sillies not the band) and what my mother calls "living in the 'now'".
See, there's this person, Eckhart Tolle, that speaks of spiritual enlightenment, and how to attain understanding by letting go of the "ego", that voice in our heads. I can't go into further detail because I haven't researched more than whats been told to me, but it's somewhat of an interesting way to let go of religion and focus on attaining an inner spiritual release and understanding.
If any of you are lost and don't know what to believe, look up Eckhart Tolle and find some of his books. Maybe he might interest you.
Think before you speak, and speak before your thoughts escape you. |
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Post: #540845 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 4:09PM |
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I'm hesitant to describe myself as atheist, largely because of certain definitions of the word.
Just to be clear- I don't believe in a God, a creator... any of that.
This is hard to explain.
Some describe atheism as the complete rejection of a deity or afterlife etc. An atheist (by some definitions) would stick by that no matter what, in the same kind of way as a religious person would strongly believe the opposite. Despite proof. Now, I don't think any kind of deity exists. But if someone can come up with some solid, scientific proof to contradict that, then I'll accept it. It wouldn't change my life greatly, and I wouldn't join a religion or begin to worship or anything. But I would accept that I was wrong. I would not deny scientific proof of a god- and I imagine that most people who identify as atheist would agree with me. But I have been challenged before about this, and told that I should in fact describe myself as an agnostic atheist rather than atheist if I am open to proof.
Just to clarify- I don't believe there ever will be any proof. It's theoretical.
-----
The other reason I'm hesitant is ghosts. Don't laugh! I don't believe in Yvette Fielding style ghost hunting or the typical horror story/film ghosts, but I do kind of believe in... something similar. I know photos and videos etc. are really easy to fake, and people can make up fantastic stories. But whether images of dead people, left-behind bits of living people, mind links, micro-organisms that resemble the shapes of larger organisms in groups, figments of the imagination... whatever. I think there's some truth there (though a lot less than the internet would have us believe). I have a few personal stories that are the main reason for this belief. Message me and I'll share them if anyone's interested, but this probably isn't the place to post them.
I also can't get the idea of reincarnation out of my mind. I don't believe in souls. I don't think there's any kind of heaven/hell afterlife. I feel that I shouldn't believe in reincarnation because of that. I want to not believe it. The population is rising (though I guess time doesn't have to be linear) which makes it most probably illogical. My problem is that as a very young child, I asked mum what happens to people when they die. She went off explaining that no-one really knows etc. But I wanted to know what happened to the old body, because I knew that people get born again and forget everything that happened before. It's a bit sad, but not very sad because you don't really know it happens.
Also, I think the basics of Karma/ threefold law kind of make sense. But that's not because either is some kind of external force- just because the concept of 'if someone's nice to you, you're more likely to be nice back' works, and happens on different scales. That's more like logic than anything spiritual, but it's a good way to live
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Post: #540852 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 4:35PM |
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:: grum
:: QA Staff (Founder) | |
Yeah, there's often confusion over what atheism really is. This may help:
http://atheism.about.com/od/ab...m/a/atheism.htm
In the end, I think many atheists are, by the definition in the above article, 'agnostic atheists'. We accept that it cannot be proven so we choose not to believe in deities.
"Some describe atheism as the complete rejection of a deity or afterlife etc. An atheist (by some definitions) would stick by that no matter what, in the same kind of way as a religious person would strongly believe the opposite. Despite proof."
The "despite proof" statement is a little strange. I'm atheist because there is no proof. If ever there was, it would challenge many people to realign their beliefs. So it's not something can be used to define atheism or anything else.
Regarding karma, it's a nice idea, isn't it? But, there's very little evidence of it and again, it can't be proven. So... I'm out. Ha. Do your best by others, whenever possible, though. Even if just for the feeling of inner wellbeing (Very rarely, if ever, are we driven by true altruism!)
When I was young / I didn't know if I was better off asleep or up
Now I've grown up / I wonder what was that world I was dreaming of? Nada Surf
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Edit: grum, Sun 14 Aug 11, 5:37PM
Post: #540872 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 5:27PM |
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i consider myself as a "pick and mix" - that is, i choose the best/most appropriate parts of religions and form my own ideas from it
mainly as most religions contradict itself, constantly.
religion is dangerous, biliefs and ideas are what the world should have.
it will be alright in the end, and if it's not alright, it's not the end yet.
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Post: #540894 , Sun 14 Aug 11, 7:29PM |
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